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Chapter 10 Questions


#1

If you have question for Wayne, or would like to suggest a topic for the group in discussing this chapter, please post it here.


#2

Wayne, on page 99, you mention that “one can only learn to detect his reality by experiencing enough of him that he shapes the way we live. That happens both by recognizing where he is working and the fruit that results, as well as by growing weary of the futility and frustration of our own agenda.”

Could you write a bit more about “recognizing where he is working”? This concept has often baffled me. (I remember doing the series called “Experiencing God” that focused on joining in where God was working. I didn’t really get it then, either.) Isn’t God somewhat at work everywhere? And when I see him at work, what does that mean for me? I can’t join in EVERYWHERE I see him.

Thanks,
Bobbe


#3

Bobbe, in this context of finding connections to his church, I meant looking for those relationships you see him inviting you into. I meet loads of people every day, but I spend more intentional time with those where I sense his working. It may be someone in need of love, someone who breathes encouragement into my life, someone who is going through a rough patch that I have compassion for, or sometimes it’s just someone I enjoy being with and seeing how else God might make a way for us to be together.

This goes on at a more intuitive level than an intellectual one. I don’t process every relationship with with an intellectual dialog about it. I just sense God drawing my heart one way instead of another; to spend time with one opportunity instead of other. I don’t always know why, I’ve just learned to follow my heart and I often find God is the midst of it. Do I get it right all the time? Not at all. And I don’t feel pressed to. I’m just leaning in to the relationships he seems to have for me at a given time and see what comes of it. This is far more living and far less strategy.

If that makes sense…

Wayne in Thousand Oaks, CA


#4

It does! Yes, in the context of relationships and daily encounters. Thanks.


#5

You said it was okay to pitch in with other things, too?
Do you have any thoughts regarding Devern Fromke?


#6

I’d prefer not to get into a list of author/speakers and who I like and don’t like, but since this is more of a historic figure I jump in here. I read Ultimate Intention a few decades ago and I remember it as a good read, shifting my thoughts back to a more relational connection with God. Can’t say more than that though because I haven’t kept up with him or his writings.


#7

Thanks. Just heard of his passing. He is new to me. . . . . . Actually, trying to spend more time with the Bible and less time with authors, but I don’t want to miss a gem. I like to read books that generate conversation with the Word as I read through it. That is one of the reasons I particularly enjoy your books at this place in the journey. . . . . . Shared Finding with a retired pastor recently. Says he wishes he’d had it years ago. He grabbed onto the living loved thought right away. It’s what the IC we all left is missing. I’ve felt badly about the hurt he and his family have endured but discovering the reality is allowing them to move into something better. It’s been/still is a roller-coaster for us all.


#8

“Creating God in my own image”, those very words scare me and wanted to ask if you can give a little into what that means if it is possible here?
I ask as it does worry me that as Father loves me could I be building in things that really is me and not God.
I said this in my last posting which may clarify what I’m trying to find out…

The following is from my previous post answering Ron…

For me the definition of Love is God, leaning into Him and allowing Him to love me daily is what is teaching me what Love is. I feel a lot of what I previously learned has and is being rewired by Father to show me a better way to love. How close I am is what I am I suppose is something I need to know, I get worried that I could be making a God in my own image?? I think I’d like to ask Wayne in the questions section.


#9

That’s one of the great growing points of our lives, to see God as he really is, not as we might want him to be. Some want him to be mean and vindictive, others the great Grandpa in the sky. But he is who he is and my journey as been one of wanting to know that with ever-increasing clarity, both from the teaching of Scripture and my own engagements with the Transcendent one. And I don’t think we need to get too paranoid here. None of us truly know God as he really is. At best we’re only going to grasp a small facet of his nature during our time here, but that doesn’t mean we can’t live inside of the revelation he’s given us with a humility that realizes we all more to learn.

By “creating God in our own image”, I mean an angry person always seeing God as angry. Or someone who is indulgent seeing God as a party God without concern for our well-being. Or the psychopath who can treat others dishonestly and abusively all while sharing how loving God is. It happens all the time. I see people justifying outrageous behavior on their misguided conclusions about who God is. But they don’t start with God and learn to live in his reality, they actually start with their own desires and fashion a God who allows that to be acceptable.

I have found that the people who are most certain they are right about God are usually the most wrong. Knowing him comes with pre-loaded humility that realizes he’s far bigger than anything we can conceive.

The other danger here of course is that we become so uncertain of who he is that we live in paranoia and fear that anything good must be from me. He is a good and gracious Father, no doubt! He is also holy and the greatest invitation in the universe is that we can be holy too, transformed by him to be whole, loving, and a gift to others. Jesus came to show us exactly what God was like so we have a place to start in the way he treats and loves us.


#10

Wonderfully put thank you, loved this…


#11

From your answer to Bobbe,

This goes on at a more intuitive level than an intellectual one. I don’t process every relationship with with an intellectual dialog about it. I just sense God drawing my heart one way instead of another; to spend time with one opportunity instead of other. I don’t always know why, I’ve just learned to follow my heart and I often find God is the midst of it. Do I get it right all the time? Not at all. And I don’t feel pressed to. I’m just leaning in to the relationships he seems to have for me at a given time and see what comes of it. This is far more living and far less strategy.

Again wonderfully put it helps me to a better understanding of how Father will bring those he wants to put in my life. I like to think I follow my heart in things and enjoy the language you use here when you “sense God drawing your heart one way instead of another.”


#12

I get this, or at least I think I do. And as I said on another thread, this is what I try to do when I am hungering for church (lean into the relationships around me). However, I really long for some of these relationships to be knit together into a community/family of believers. After 13 years outside the IC, I have really never experienced more than isolated Chriatian relationships. I know I can’t force community but I really long for it and wish I could facilitate it somehow.