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Hi Ian.

Thank you for the welcome.

Please feel free to ask any questions you would have. If I do not have the answers you are looking for, I will find out - just love researching stuff.

Best regards


Hi Lenny

Thanks for making me feel welcome!

I trust that I will make lots of friends through this.

I am busy watching the “Engage” series and it is so practical and helpful.

Thanks again.


Oh thanks Lidia, you made my evening with your answer, I work a night shift so received the notification before work.

One question my daughter, (Natasha) that has been really getting to her emotionally is she feels she will never be able to go through childbearing and the nine months or so carrying the baby. What are your thoughts here, could this be so and is it medically not advised?
I suppose the real question is did you carry a baby after your Fibro was diagnosed?
Are there any pain killers that could help whilst pregnant as I imagine the normal ones she can use today are not advisable as the could harm baby?

Sadly I think this one area is what has brought her the most tears and I would love to get an answer firsthand to pass to her. My questioning does not factor in the this, that God could carry her and even possibly heal her and remove this altogether. However I am asking from the viewpoint that that none of the above happens and Natasha has to walk the distance with this ailment.

That’s it for now, I think there is a more private way to message you within the discussion here but I can’t remember how to do it…if you or anyone knows please mention it here…

fond regards



Hi Ian.

My fibromyalgia was only diagnosed at a later stage, so I did not have to deal with prenancy and FM. Pain killers are not good during pregnancy, fullstop. Is your daughter under the care of a rheumatologist? If yes, this question can be answered best by him/her. If not, It may benefit to visit an expert.

I am sharing my personal experiences below:

I find that a cold compress helps for my pain. Not necessary to buy a special container - I sometimes use a bag of frozen veg, wrapped in a towel, otherwise, crush some ice blocks in smaller pieces and put in a ziplock bag and wrap in a towel. Some people react better with heat, but it is not working for me. A phisio therapist recommended alternating heat and cold which did help.

What works for me is a combination of ibuprofen and paracetamol. I use 400mg Ibuprofen and 1000 mg paraceramol on a regular basis and it helps me contol the pain.

I will not recommend that during pregnancy, especially ibuprofen should NOT be used without being monitored by a professional and NEVER during the 3rd timester.

I would love to get in touch with your daughter, even if it just for encouragement. :smile:



Thanks a million Lidia I’m very grateful for you sharing this.
My daughter has a Facebook group that she formed for fibromyalgia she has quite a few people that are members on that I will ask her what she calls the group and mention our corispondance here if you have Facebook.
I don’t think my daughter has seen a rheumatologist however she is with the number of people that her doctor has put it with, has visits to what they call a pain clinic and then some group which is now currently stopped that helps her deal with the depression side of what is going on. Regards the medication for the pain, she gets severe pain and the meds that she is doing is a multitude of heavy painkillers but ibuprofen and paracetamol are not among them.
I will get in touch with my daughter in the next few days but will mention a little something that I have held back on saying.
My daughter last week after much depression and after one of the team that are meant to be helping with the pain, said something extremely stupid to her. She came home and lost the plot somewhat. What the person that said made her extremely angry and she did have an attempt to self harm. Thankfully her husband was there and no serious stuff happened however she is now with a serious risk team of psychologists dealing with that angle. So I will return us with information on this via the same method soon.
For the moment frankly for me, I’m just hanging onto God trying to make sense of where this is going to go now and holding back because it is out of my depth to deal with and I’m glad that God has opened the doors too so many very good people that are dealing with this in a proper manner.



Hi Ian. I have spoken to my sister who is a pharmacist. She says that FM patients for some reason experience less pain during pregnancy. She also mentioned that a special diet with the help of a dietician can help. I am sad to hear that she wanted to harm herself. That is something that people with depression battle with, and I understand what she went through. Do not stop talking to our Daddy about her. He knows best. Take care. Lidia


Hello friends! I’m obviously coming in to this discussion very late! Still, Finding Church is a great book! I bought a case and I’m passing them out to many I know who are disheartened with empty promises and tired of looking for God and not finding Him where they’re told they’ll find Him.

My name is Erin. I’m one of God’s kids. :grinning: I live in Northern Michigan with my husband of 23 years, Jesse, and my three younger kids – 14, 17, 19 (home from college for the summer). My 22-year-old lives an hour away in the closest large town where we drive to do our shopping, eye appointments, etc.

I grew up in the church (Mom was a church musician) and I tried to figure out what the “rules” were so I could “get it right”. It changed me completely when I finally understood grace sometime around age 30. I’ve lived the last 13 years in awe of His goodness and He keeps drawing me into ever-greater relationship, love, and trust.

I’ve questioned “church teaching” and expectations, and the lack of producing very much of eternal significance for so, so long that I finally decided to shut up talking about it because I was afraid I would actually drive my children away from the church with my frustration. I’ve been involved in a few church plants, always excited about the idea of sharing God’s amazing grace with people. It never really panned out like I was hoping. I was always extremely frustrated with the idea that making coffee or doing worksheets in children’s church was somehow valuable when it didn’t seem to make any difference at all. Maybe it was valuable, but just not my gift, or just not fulfilling to me, even though they kept telling me it was supposed to be.

My husband has been on the “Lead Team” at our IC and gives the message there from time to time (which makes my frustration with IC a little dicey!). God has kept His staying hand on me as I have struggled with frustration at the anti-biblical messages coming from the regular pastor. I have wanted to leave for several years. From all appearances the pastor doesn’t believe God is anything more than a nice theoretical idea. He’s like a big self-help book up there. But I digress… The real point is that God has clearly told me my place is there, with that group of people, and that in this season, this is where He wants me.

On the “Yay!” side, there’s a small group of people who are in love with Jesus who meet together for an hour before the Sunday service to pray together for our pastor, the families and people at our church, the marriages, our community, our country, other ministries, and, essentially, anything the Lord lays on our hearts. That is when we have church! I love it! It’s my favorite time of the week! When the prayer is over, we walk into the sanctuary and just sit and listen to a guy up front comment randomly on things for the better part of an hour. LOL!

My sweet Lord has been working on me and working on me about my attitude about the pastor and his preaching. He keeps reminding me that this guy is His servant, and that in spite of whatever this guy does, “nothing can hinder the Lord from saving, whether by many or by few” and that I’m really supposed to just settle down and keep my eyes on Him! And recently He’s been opening up opportunities to really share the life of God with other people in and around that church community. This is great! because almost without fail, people come in to our “seeker-friendly” church, sit down, listen to the teaching, talk to each other about sports or the weather, and then go home until the next week without ever talking to each other about God or what Jesus is doing in their lives. Year after year after year. It’s almost been a forbidden topic — in church — if you can imagine! But He is good and He is working!

I just keep walking with Him one day at a time. Maybe He’ll let me leave that IC, maybe He’ll just allow me to be the pipeline through which His great love flows to those people in that IC. Who knows? I’m sure He has some fantastic days in mind on this journey with Him!

Sorry to go long. In a nutshell, He keeps teaching, leading, guiding, prodding, loving me!

Other things I do and/or like:

  • Teaching my kids, learning all sorts of cool things together, sharing His life together!
  • Playing violin
  • Kayaking, hiking
  • Nature and beauty
  • Flowers and gardening in general
  • Finish carpentry
  • Health Practitioner focused on gentle, natural healing for mind-body
  • Porch-sitting :wink:


Hello and welcome Erin…

Bailey, NC


What part of Northern Michigan. I was just there this spring-- in Cadillac, Petoskey and over on the UP. Had a great time.


Hi Lidia, not sure if you saw I sent you a private message on here, when you log in click your photo and there’s a little envelope pic there. It’ll have some mail in there in reply to your last message.
Hope all is well with you there in Joe’es :wink:


Hi Ian. I trust you are well. I have sent your daughter an invite on Facebook, but I do not know if she would know who I am. Regards. Lidia


Hi. Me again. Are there any South Africans on this discussion group? Would love to meet like minded people close by.


Lidia, I was just in South Africa. Where do you live there? Perhaps I could put some people in touch with you.


Hi Wayne.

I was really sad when I heard you were here. I was in hospital at the time my friend spoke about it, with the result that I missed it.

I live in Johannesburg, close to Edenvale.



I’m sorry you couldn’t join us when I was there. It would have been a great time to meet others on this journey. But write me at and describe a bit about yourself, and I’ll send it to some of my contacts there and see if people want to get in touch. They almost always do…


HI Beth -

Wondering if you’re still in the Texas panhandle? Wayne is coming this weekend, so I thought I’d check to see if you were still around and would like to get together with a few of us.

Let me know - thanks!



Hi Karen…where in Virginia do you live? We live in the Harrisonburg area. Also, we just adopted a 2 year old from China. We have been out of the IC for awhile and really struggle to find community with other like minded believers.


My husband and I live in the Harrisonburg, Virginia area and have 4 girls under 10 and homeschool. We have both grown up in the IC. The last 10 years we have struggled and feel like we have been church shopping for most of this time until this last year we have given up searching. But for the last 3 or 4 years that we have mostly been away from the IC we have grown even closer to God. Seeing our lives transform outside of the box really has got us thinking of our dependency on it and other people and how much religion had a hold on us. It has been a hard road but am so thankful our relationship with our Father has grown so much deeper and continues to grow. All along I have had this guilt of not putting my kids in church (mainly from my mom and a few other friends). Slowly this guilt has lessened but since I have read some of Waynes books a month ago, I am amazed at how much that guilt is no longer present. We have enjoyed the God Journey podcasts and seeing others journeys that it has been like a confirmation of what we have been feeling the past few years and that we are not alone. We aren’t “crazy” after all!! Haha! I have felt a freedom like I have never felt before.

We have really hungered for community the past few years and I even started a ladies group in my home for quite awhile but this didn’t fill the void I had so I no longer host one. I also have had it engrained in me all my life that I need to “reach” people so this is what I tried to do but it never felt right. I look back and see the moments we had casual conversations over a meal were the most meaningful instead of the bible studies I tried to lead. I am now realizing that I even put the need for community above my need for God alone. I have always been at a more push to find a church because it was something we always did, or a requirement. My husband didn’t feel this way as much. But I no longer feel the urge to church shop anymore and feel the love of Father more than ever. However I still can’t fathom how I can completely trust God to guide me each day in this journey and bring people across my path. I am so eager to “start” something. So I am battling with that at the moment and wondering “What’s next?.” We actually felt like we should start something in our home right before we found Wayne’s books and now we are just taking a step back and asking God if this is really what we should be doing. So thankful for God’s perfect timing as we figure this out.

We do not know any fellow believers who would understand all of this and I find myself even hiding Wayne’s books when my family members come over or just trying to avoid church conversations all together. It’s like we have discovered this best kept secret or gift and want to shout it out but can’t share it with anyone in fear it could get taken away or be made less valuable. I pray that one day I can feel more comfortable with sharing our journey and don’t feel like I have to hide anything (and here I just mentioned feeling free, but I guess God has more to do in me). Even though we do not have anyone nearby to talk about this with, it is nice to know these forums exist to connect with others going through this journey.


Hi Amy!
We live in Roanoke! But I lived in Harrisonburg for 15+ years. I read your post on the lifesteam thread as well as the one you sent me. It sounds like we have somewhat similar stories😊
I think we’ve been out of the IC about 2-3 years now. I really can’t remember to tell the truth. When we left the church we had been attending for several years it was because of an uneasiness we felt in the body of believers there. It had some “cult” like tendencies revolving around the church leadership. We church hopped for a while but like you finally gave up. We feel liberated and free! We were so dependent on the IC to tell us everything we should be doing. If God was talking to me I wouldn’t have known. I just did everything everyone else was doing and that was suppose to be helping me draw nearer to God. Crazy!!!
I know what it’s like to try to explain to others all that God is showing me outside the box of IC. They have no idea what I’m trying to share with them. Mostly just nods and then what they are doing at church! Lol!


Thanks for responding! I think I have seen your name in the VA FB Group? You are the second person I have connected with that used to live in Harrisonburg and now in Roanoke. I can certainly understand when all people want to talk about is their church and how much they love it. I used to be jealous but not anymore! Thanks for the encouragement by just sharing more of your journey. Hope we can stay in touch or meet up one day! :slight_smile: